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Arnis Jansons
I used to steal and drink
„If God will choose me to
be a pastor in Zilupe or anywhere else, I completely trust God and the Holy
Spirit. Completely! Only He knows what will be the right thing to do. Such
trust in God I have for about a year,” says Arnis.
Interview with Inguna and Arnis Jansons by Talivaldis
Talbergs
T. T. Inguna and Arnis,I am positively shocked first by the discipline during the photography
time – there were 18 of you on the picture, and you were so quiet, so orderly!
Arnis, you as the head of the family, tell us, what kind
of family do you come from?
A.J.In our family
there were eight sisters and five brothers. My mother was given the title „ the
heroic mother” , in Breznev’ s time she was given a medal „ Golden Star”.My father is dead, mother is till alive, one
brother and one sister have died, too. Oldest brother drowned, youngestsister was stabbed to death.
T.T. Did you grow up in a Christian family?
A.J.
No. In our home nobody ever talked about God.I was born, raised and studied in Riga. We lived in Riga till 1999, then
sold our flat and moved to Zilupe. We live in Zilupe already for 12 years.
T.T.
Inguna, how and where did you meet Arnis?
I.J.It is a very interesting story!
T.
T. Are you also from Riga?
I.J.
Yes. We were six children in our family.My mom was dead.When mom died,
four of us youngest children were taken in foster care by Arnis’ aunt. First I
saw Arnis on a picture, of course – handsome, good looking! Aunt and Arnis’ mom
were just joking at that time: when the son comes home from the army, we will
give you to him for a wife! When the son came home from the army, that is
exactly what happened. When we started dating seriously, many objected – no,
no, don’ t get married!
A.J.Since
childhood we lived next door to each other on Janis Asaris street – she lived
in one house, but I in another house in the yard next door.
I.J.
We were so small then! Arnis was five, I was just born.
A.J.Afterwards
she moved to Kengarags but I remained in the center.
T.T.
Arnis, please tell about your youth. What did you do as a young guy, where did
you study?
A.J.In
high school number 6, I have to say – I got through by the skin of my teeth,
and I finished eight grades. I was a very very bad boy! During classes I spent
more time in the hallway then in the classroom.
T.
T. You did not like studying?
A.J.I
did not think it was necessary, I was fine the way I was. When we moved from
Janis Asaris street to the center of Riga, I got to know some guys, it was a
pretty big gang, and they started using me in all sorts of ways. For example,
they would say,”Go up to this person and ask them for some money!” I walked up
to some older guys and asked, of course, in a pretty brutal manner. It was on
purpose.I had to challenge those guys
in a way so that they would do something bad to me, because then other gang
members could beat them up and take what they needed. I got my sweets and some
other things. It was a good arrangement for them and for me also. When I got
older, I felt pretty awsome but in that area at that time there were several
gangs. Once at school four guys beat me up. I went up to my gang and said,”They
beat me up, let’s go and pay them back.” They answered,”No, we don’t have
time.” My request was rejected. It hurt me inside, and decided to take revenge
myself, so I joined boxing. I decided to take up boxing and then beat them up.
T.T.
You had hatred for them for several months?
A.J.Yes,
quite long – for a about a year. I felt that I had to train so well that I
would be able take revenge singlehandedly. I knew that nobody will defend me. I
went to my older brothers, they were also very strong, but they did not agree
to help. I trained, trained and felt – I need to train some more...The stronger
I got, the more I felt pity for them. It was not worth beating them up. What
happened? I got very strong, organized my own gang. We robbed people and did
many other things; there were no young guys or men who passed through our area
and did not get robbed. We did not touch women and children, also men who were
together with women. We spent money for alcohol, cigarettes, of course. We had
our meeting points. Everything had gotten so far that the inspector of juvenile
offenders said when I was 18 – you have two options – to join the army, or to
go to jail. I said, „I am joining the army!” They wrote me a paper, sent to
Samarkanda, we were being trained for Afganistan. I started using drugs there.
T.
T. Soviet army?!
A.J.Soviet,
of course. We used to smoke so called anash
and made a soup – drugs with sugar. Afganistan was closing down, we were not
moved there but sent all over the Soviet Union. I was sent to Northern
Caucasus, we guarded warehouses and so called disbat. We could get drugs there as well. I formed a small group of
guys there, too, just six, seven guys. Right before our demobilization we
decided to make some money. We robbed the warehouse we were guarding. Took the
gates off hinges, there was a small trapdoor, I was skinny, only 48 kg. I got
in through a small hole, about as big as your hat. I got through such
ventilation shaft, got in, opened it from the inside, and took out all the
equipment. We sold it. They, of course, found out who did it.We did not make it home. First when war
tribunal started investigation we said that we did not know anything. But one
of the guys confessed, we were all arrested and spent 27 days in single person
cells. The cell was one meter by one meter, the conditions were awful. There
was only a cemented in pipe you could sit on, all the walls were covered with
sharp things. Nothing else, you just sit there and cannot even lean back
because of the sharp things. There was also a dent about a meter deep. When you
start acting crazy, they open the door and poor in some cold water. We were
only taken out to go to WC – taken out and back in. That is when I first prayed
to God,”God, please, help me, get me out of here!”
T.
T. How did you know that you had to pray to God?
A.J.I
don’t know why but when I was feeling bad I prayed to God, that He would forgive
me. Even when I was in the gang, I prayed to God. Even went to Revolucijas, now Matisa street
church opposite of Ziedondarzs, went to this church some three, four times. I
don’t know why but I and the guys just went in. I saw that there was a church
service going on, people at the door invited us in but we turned around and
went back out. After another half a year we went in again. We were passing by
and I said,”Let’s go in. They are singing such interesting songs!”
T.
T. You prayed to God in this cell, and what happened?
A.J.I
knew that I could spend 27 hours in single person cell. After that I will
either be released and sent back to my unit, or I will be sent to jail. I knew
100% - if they will send me to jail, I will remain there. If they will send me
to unit, I knew 99% - I will get home. Then I prayed,”God, forgive me!”
T.
T. Did you promise anything to God?
A.J.Promised,
but don’t remember what exactly. I prayed then, there was nothing else to do,
nobody else to talk to. I was there all alone. After 27 days the door opened, I
was taken outside through the hallway in the room where I saw the oldest
leutenant and understood – thank God, I will get away from here! Within a week
my papers were ready, and I was sent back to Latvia.
T.T.
Did your wife await you at home?
A.J.I
didn’t know anyhthing about it! When I came home somebody rang the doorbell and
said,”Go, meet your wife!” I answered in a similar spirit,”OK!” I opened the
door and said,”I am so glad to see my wife! We all came inside and had a good
laugh. After a week I invited her to a movie theatre, then we got to know each
other better, started spending time together.Maybe I had to meet Inguna because afterwards I broke off all the
relationships with my previous friends. I knew – if I will go on like this…As
soon as I was drafted into the army, most of my gang went to jail, also the
girl I had before the army had to spend two or three years in jail.
T.T.
How were you able to deal with your alcohol and drug addiction?
A.J.
I was able to stop using drugs myself because I had not gone far enough yet. I
could take some pills with alcohol or smoke weed or something else but I was
not addicted. It was different with alcohol – I tried all sorts of methods –
coding myself, visiting healers! It did not help. Time went by and I was
drinking more and more. My family suffered.
T.T.
How many kids did you have when you were still drinking?
A.J.
All of them.
I.J.
He drank twenty years. There were times when he drank, then did not drink, then
drank again. First ampule was sown under his skin in 1993. I was pregnant with
Oskars, our fourth child. But after a year he started drinking again. Next time
he started drinking even sooner.At that
time he begun realizing how much money he is spending on drink.
T.T.
Did he earn money?
I.J.
Yes. When he did not drink for an entire year, we really felt it. First time he
stopped drinking was very difficult, everybody turned their back on him. Only
sister and mother accepted that he will not be drinking anymore.Other friends and relatives turned their
backs – you are not one of us anymore! It was very difficult. To be honest, at
first I thought – it would be better if he drank. Psyschologically it was a
very difficult time. After that things calmed down.
T.T.
Inguna, how were you able to endure it all? You had small children plus Arnis
drinking which did not last only for a day.
I.J.
He was not into binge drinking yet then. He simply came home drunk; he was not
binge drinking. That came later.
T.T.
How did you get out of it?
A.J.
It happened here in Zilupe, and I did not get out of it myself.In Zilupe I was garding horses for a horse
farmer. When I was going to check on horses, I heard a voice: from this moment
on your life will be totally transformed. It was said much sterner. In the
beginning I did not know what was happening, maybe collegues are playing a
prank on me. But I heard a real voice, it spoke to me: from this moment on you
will not drink and smoke; your life will be totally transformed.
T.T.
Did you pray to God before that or fast?
A.J.
No, I did not fast. Before that I saw a dream that I walk into a building that
is just being built – no walls, only posts. One or two people attacked me, and
I was fighting with them and won but from somwhere else came others, total of
seven. I was getting tired, could not resist them any longer. When they had
almost killed me my dead sister showed up and said: come with me, I will save
you. I said,”No, I will manage myself.” My sister got between us, I got up and
ran away.
Afterwards
I told Inguna,”This is it, I have become crazy from drink!” Sometimes I
worshiped God and then understood that what I was doing was not good. Then I
really worshiped God and heard that voice that totally changed my life. Before
that I worked in Scotland. There almost every night I prayed for my family that
stayed in Latvia. I made good money there, sent Inguna a thousand lats a month
but felt that something is wrong. I prayed,”God, is this really the life I am
supposed to be living – enough money and that’s it?” The company I was working
for fell apart, other company took over, they did not pay, and I came home. Got
a job here, started drinking again, everything was like before. Then I
worshipped and heard the voice. From that moment it was over! Soon enough I
started attending the house of prayer, I needed somebody to talk about God
with. Linards Kaptans was the only person I could talk to. I had gone to
catholic, orthodox church but did not find what I needed there. With Linards Kaptans
we could discuss about the Bible, to have many long conversations. He helped me
a lot.
T.T.
Inguna, when Arnis was having all these problems, did you pray?
I.J.
As I knew to pray. In Riga we used to go to church, we were both baptised,
married in Lutheran church. I was about six when my grandmother showed me a
book where JesusChrist was resurrected.
It is the only thing I remember about this picture. During those times nobody
talked about God in our family, it was a forbidden topic. My mom tought me that
it is not allowed to steal. She taught us some of the Ten Commandments. When I
was about ten, I read a book. The girl in the book prayed. It stayed in my
mind.
T.T.
Weren’tyou in despair? You never used
alcohol yourself?
I.J.
I was in despair. Some nights I prepared romantic dinner to spend time with my
husband; then he drank a little, and I also drank a little. Just so that he
would not go somewhere else. Somebody taught me that. Sometimes it worked but
those were fleeting moments. Then I realized that it is pointless.
T.
T. What did you think about Arnis story about the voice?
I.J.
About that time my patience was beginning to run out . I told God, „That’s it!
I wash my hands, I cannot do this anymore! Twenty years is enough!” About that
time we had all of our seven children and five foster children. Last time his
partying went on for a long time, his health was getting worse, and I said –
this is crazy! What will do him in if he is not afraid of anything! After all
the coding he could not cope very long – two, three days, and recovery from
drinking was a long process. It was difficult to watch.
T.T.
After you heard God’s voice – that was it! It is a miracle.
A.J.
Yes. I think it was the grace of God. It was a miracle that I was let out of the
single person cell. This was more God having mercy on me.
T.T.
Right now are you completely free?
A.J.
People next to me can drink all they want, I can say to them – it is not
necessary. I do not put others as examples, if I talk to somebody about drinking,
I only talk about myself. I cannot talk about others, only about myself.
T.
T. How many children of your own did you have before you starded taking in
foster children?
I.J.
Five. Then came Dainis. When we lived in Riga, Dainis and Robis were in the
same grade, we lived next door. His grandmother asked us to take him for the
summer. We said, fine, your friend can come. He lived with us for that first
summer. After couple weeks when I went to visit his grandmother, she said,”Just
take him!” I thought she was joking.
Because
I was a foster child, I used to say that I will never have foster children. I
also used to say to my mom that I will never get married but will have a child
anyway, a daughter, if necessary, I will find one in orphanage. But my life
turned out to be completely different.
Next
year Dainis came again for the summer and stayed. Arnis was the one that talked
me into taking Dainis. Then he started saying – we only have one daughter. Four
sons and only one daughter.He was
saying that it is boring for our daughter to be on her own, we need a second
daugther. I said ok, let’s find a foster daugther in an orphanage. That’s how
Sabine came into our family. She is Dainis’ niece. We were having children at
the same time – she had Sabine, I had Romands. Afer four years she was already
in an orphanage. She is a difficult child, handicapped with delayed mental
development. We knew that she exists but never knew that she was in the orphanage.
Dainis was not eighteen yet when he started asking, „Mom, what do you need to
be able to take in foster children?” I said, „ You need a wife, a home and a
job!” Later I felt that he was being serious and asked, „ What do you have on
your mind?” He said, „To take Sabine.” That’s how we found out and got guardianship
of Sabine. In 2005 we were invited to go
to the president and there we were even more convinced that we have to be a
foster family. I had heard about foster families but could not imagine how it
was going to be if I had to give the children away after awhile. In foster
families children only come for a time, until they are 18. I thought about it
and said, „We have our brother’s and sister’s children coming every summer
anyway, and we are brokenhearted when they leave.”
T.
T. It all happened in this house?
I.J.
Yes, here.
T.
T. How big is your house?
A.J.
70 square meters. We have outhouse outside, no shower but a sauna house.
I.J.
We have three bedrooms and a kitchen, about 50 square meters.
T.
T. How many are you?
I.J.
In the summer quite a few. In the winter three of the children go to a boarding
school, and only come home on the school breaks.Usually we have around 8 or 9 kids at home.
On school breaks around fourteen, fifteen. More children have come...
T.
T. Roberts, you are the firstborn and in fact you have experienced so much.
Also the things your dad was telling about. You have probably seen your
mother’s tears. You have wonderful brothers and sister. How did you feel when
more children were added?
Roberts
Jansons (oldest son): First we had a family meeting, we all gathered and talked
– will we take more kids or not? The little children also participated, they
also had to say their yes or no. First we took Sabine and Nikola, then Viktors.
He left, his brother Sasha came. I started living by myself when I was
seventeen. When I was sixteen I already worked at horse farm.
T.
T. Did you ever wanted to tell you mom and dad, „Why do we need so many
children?”
R.
J. I have never had such thoughts. I have never thought that we don’t need one
of the brothers and sisters.
T.
T. Even the foster children?
R.
J. Foster children, too.
T.T.
All together you have eighteen children. How do you divide your love? Not just
biological children but also foster children want love.
I.J.
When we go someplace, everybody gets in a long line and waits for kisses,
everybody wants to get some tenderness. When we get home, same thing. The
children who enter our home do not know how to take love. Some time goes by
before they learn how to get love.
T.
T. Do you want to say that they have grown up without love?
I.J.
Yes, they have not received it. When such a child comes into a family, they
don’t understand that it can be a good thing – to receive a hug, a kiss.
A.J.
I have noticed – when you give love to another child, your own children start
thinking that you give them less attention. They feel that they are receiving
less love, it is noticable.
T.
T. How are you trying to solve it?
A.J.
We try to talk with them.
I.J.
When new children come into our family, our own children get jealous. They come
up to us more often and ask for love. Others see it as well.
A.J.
We have not received a single child in our family without talking to other
children. We ask them, „What do you think? There is a child who has it very
hard. What do you say if we take him?” We try to talk to our children as if
they were adults.
T.
T. How old is your youngest daughter?
I.J.
Seven.
T.
T. But there is even a younger girl.
I.J.
Sabine’s sister Nikola. She came into our family as the youngest, she was only
a year old.
T.
T. Situation in Zilupe must be catastrophic – people don’t have money, total
hopelessnes. Do some people see your family as a day care of sorts and
say,”Here, take mine as well...”
I.J.
There is a limited number of children we can take.
A.J. We have formed an
organization in order to support foster families, organize free time of young
people, offer social services. We have turned in our project to Soros
foundation, we want to build a social center for children in Zilupe. We would
like to have there free meals for the kids, we would teach the Bible, play and
do other activities.
T.T. How can you make ends
meet financially? How many loaves of bread do you have to buy? Certainly not
one at a time?
I.J. Fifteen, twenty loaves
two times a week. Two kilos margarine, flour, we bake alot.
A.J. We usually have two or
more shopping carts. Overflowing. They know us at the store – we buy stuff and
bring shopping carts out trainlike. At one time we spend forty, fifty,
sometimes seventy lats.
T. T. Have you been able to
go somewhere just the two of you?
A.J. I will never forget
when the kids gave us a three day trip to Poland. We had no worries and could
entrust everything to the kids – home, cattle – everything was perfect when we
came back. Better than we would have done. The big kids had saved money for the
trip from their salaries during the summer.
T. T. How do you celebrate
special days?
I.J. We sing songs, have
special sweets. We don’t celebrate each birthday, just have supper together
that night. But once a year at the end of July we have family celebration.
Everybody who can comes here. We have a table, games, everybody participates,
we turn into small children.
T. T. Why did you choose
Zilupe?
A.J. Cheaper homes here, we
could not affort anything more expensive. Initially we wanted to be closer to
Riga, we had never lived in the country. We were afraid of cows. Sold our flat
for 3.5 thousand, and did not have any more money. Kids had schoolbuses here, everything
within walking distance because we did not have any money. When we came here
all the locals turned away from us. Nobody sold us anything – cattle, milk,
potatoes. They considered us to be strangers. We were the only Latvians here.
T. T. So, you were hungry
for couple of months.
A.J. Couple of years. We
could not get milk or potatoes. Baked our own bread. We had some barley, bought
the cheapest bacon, cut it into squares and fried with onions. Remember our
first bread – it was more like pizza bread. We took our tools and went to get
wood. Brought hay from the field with our homemade wheel-barrows, used spades
to dig up potato field. Nobody wanted to give me work but we survived. When
somebody at school had a birthday, one of the kids got three candies, he
brought them home, mom took a knife and divided it so that everybody got a
piece. Now children have free meals at school.
T. T. How long did it take
for you to find a job.
A.J. Five years. We slowly
learned about cattle. At one point we had four cows. We ended up with about 65
sheep, people around came to look at our sheep. All the children had to work,
nobody could sit without work. We had a beekeeper next door, children went to
help him weed, and he gave us honey for that...
T.T. Arnis, you are student
at Baltic Pastoral Institute. How did you come up with this idea?
A.J. I knew that I had to
serve God. Accidentaly found information about Baltic Pastoral Institute. Our
pastor said, „Don’t do it yet. Wait for couple more years. But I could not put
this thought to rest. I prayed to God if it is His will, I will go. I went to
Pastoral institute, and really liked it.
T. T. Do you see yourself
as a pastor in the future?
A.J. I don’t know but I
think that I will definitely be on a mission God has put me on. I don’t know if
it will be pastoral role or something totally different. I am thankful to God
for any kind of service He calls me to. Maybe it will be missionary work. But
if God will choose me to be a pastor in Zilupe or anywhere else, I completely
trust God and the Holy Spirit. Only He knows what will be the right thing. I
have had this trust in God for about a year.
T.T. Trust in finances as
well?
A.J. Finances as well. When
I told Inguna that I want to studty at Pastoral Institute, I said that God
knows. At the same time I understood that I will have to leave my job, will
have to say no to the farm, will have to get rid of all the animals. The
children were in school, my wife could not take care of the cattle all by
herself, none of the big kids were home. We put everything in God’s hands. I
left my work, and God put my son Dainis in my place. Turned out that Pastoral
Inistitute payes stipend. Not for a moment I had doubts that God will help.
T.T. Inguna, what does the
future look for you in four years?
I.J. I have not thought
about it. I hope that Arnis will not change his mind, that he will continue his
studies. I like to study alot, I will always support him. I had never pictured
myself as pastor’s wife. It was a big surprise and a big gift of God to me. If
he will actually get this done, I will build him a monument! This way he will
pay back everything he had done to me.
A.J.I see my future serving
God, definitely. Will I be a pastor, whatever mission I will be doing in Zilupe
or some village, even if I will just tell neighbours about God, it is all
completely in God’s hands. I want my relatives to hear, I want them to
understand. They still say, „When will you end this pretense?”
T.T. They
don’t believe in your change?
I.J.They mock me and it
hurts. Not all of them but some. Knowing what I was like, of course, I see that
it is hard for them to understand. Every time I pray, I say,”God, please, use
me, my flesh, heart, soul, spirit, everything hundred percent for your ministry
no matter where it would be – here, in Latvia or the world, please, use me as
your slave, servant who brings your holy Word to people in the world. And I am
convinced that God will do it.
T.T. Do you know this
Scripture where God says,”Whom shall I send? And an answer came from a man:
send me, Lord.” Today, just now you said,”I am ready, send me.” May God richly
bless you!
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